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  • khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    0 of 1 found this helpful thumb_up thumb_down
  • Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.
    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    For VDI, there is a need to have VDA unless it is a qualified OS.

    Then to upgrade to Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise.....the host must first have a qualifying OS.

    You cannot use OEM licenses for VDI as no Windows 10 or 11 Professional licenses are sold with server hardware. You need to get Windows 10 & 11 professional licenses via EAP, MPSA or MCA (Cloud agreements).
    You cannot "buy" Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise licenses.....it is an UPGRADE licenses which means you need must first be licensed to run one of the qualifying operating systems like Windows 10 & 11 Professional.

    If you look at page 9, SA is required for 
    - Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) that allows you to virtualize the Windows 10 & 11 Professional or Upgraded Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise
    - Windows Virtual Desktop Access (VDA) Rights for access to the VDI sessions etc

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    Thats why I would recommend you to find a MS authorized vendor.....someone MS recommends and not someone that just sell MS products.....

    The SA is for the Qualifying Product and not Windows Enterprise (I leaving out the 10 & 11 from now on) as the Windows Enterprise itself is a subscription upgrade.

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    For VDI, there is a need to have VDA unless it is a qualified OS.

    Then to upgrade to Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise.....the host must first have a qualifying OS.

    You cannot use OEM licenses for VDI as no Windows 10 or 11 Professional licenses are sold with server hardware. You need to get Windows 10 & 11 professional licenses via EAP, MPSA or MCA (Cloud agreements).
    You cannot "buy" Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise licenses.....it is an UPGRADE licenses which means you need must first be licensed to run one of the qualifying operating systems like Windows 10 & 11 Professional.

    If you look at page 9, SA is required for 
    - Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) that allows you to virtualize the Windows 10 & 11 Professional or Upgraded Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise
    - Windows Virtual Desktop Access (VDA) Rights for access to the VDI sessions etc

    Perhaps I am not saying it clearly again.

    As far as my understanding, the device needs the license is the accessing side (the client device where OEM or retail license is possible) but not the server itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

    After assigning Windows Enterprise E3 upgrade license to the users of the accessing device with qualifying OS, the Azure VMs running Windows Client can be created and in case of SA it can be on-premises virtualization hosts, am I right?

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    For VDI, there is a need to have VDA unless it is a qualified OS.

    Then to upgrade to Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise.....the host must first have a qualifying OS.

    You cannot use OEM licenses for VDI as no Windows 10 or 11 Professional licenses are sold with server hardware. You need to get Windows 10 & 11 professional licenses via EAP, MPSA or MCA (Cloud agreements).
    You cannot "buy" Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise licenses.....it is an UPGRADE licenses which means you need must first be licensed to run one of the qualifying operating systems like Windows 10 & 11 Professional.

    If you look at page 9, SA is required for 
    - Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) that allows you to virtualize the Windows 10 & 11 Professional or Upgraded Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise
    - Windows Virtual Desktop Access (VDA) Rights for access to the VDI sessions etc

    Perhaps I am not saying it clearly again.

    As far as my understanding, the device needs the license is the accessing side (the client device where OEM or retail license is possible) but not the server itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

    After assigning Windows Enterprise E3 upgrade license to the users of the accessing device with qualifying OS, the Azure VMs running Windows Client can be created and in case of SA it can be on-premises virtualization hosts, am I right?

    I really got no idea what your understanding is.....I literally took 2 full weeks course with MS just to understand the Win10 licensing for VDI (Hyper-v & VMware View) & cloud PAAS & IAAS offerings (that was in 2018).
    In more simple terms MS365 E5 would contain 3 parts (for context of this discussion)
    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkID=2139145&clcid=0x4809&culture=en-sg&country=SGOpens a new window
    - MS office
    - Exchange Online
    - Windows 11 Enterprise* (This is a per device license, used to upgrade Windows 11 qualifying products).

    You do understand that all you need for VDI solution is Windows 11 Professional licenses with active SA or active VDA. You do not need to upgrade all the VMs OS to Windows 11 Enterprise.
    https://liliputing.com/differences-between-windows-11-home-pro-enterprise-and-education/Opens a new window

    If you really want to do a "self-understanding" & not rely on MS vendors, which is a good thing, you must read all these documentation head to toe paying special attention to details & fine prints......not just reading what you want to read or what you think applies to your set up.  

    Then what do you mean by "virtualization hosts" ? If you read the T&Cs of VDI requirements and/or Windows 10 & Windows 11 VDI solutions, these VMs need dedicated hosts...... literally means they cannot be hosted on-premise with other non-Windows 10 VMs & non-Windows 11 VMs.

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    For VDI, there is a need to have VDA unless it is a qualified OS.

    Then to upgrade to Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise.....the host must first have a qualifying OS.

    You cannot use OEM licenses for VDI as no Windows 10 or 11 Professional licenses are sold with server hardware. You need to get Windows 10 & 11 professional licenses via EAP, MPSA or MCA (Cloud agreements).
    You cannot "buy" Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise licenses.....it is an UPGRADE licenses which means you need must first be licensed to run one of the qualifying operating systems like Windows 10 & 11 Professional.

    If you look at page 9, SA is required for 
    - Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) that allows you to virtualize the Windows 10 & 11 Professional or Upgraded Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise
    - Windows Virtual Desktop Access (VDA) Rights for access to the VDI sessions etc

    Perhaps I am not saying it clearly again.

    As far as my understanding, the device needs the license is the accessing side (the client device where OEM or retail license is possible) but not the server itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

    After assigning Windows Enterprise E3 upgrade license to the users of the accessing device with qualifying OS, the Azure VMs running Windows Client can be created and in case of SA it can be on-premises virtualization hosts, am I right?

    I really got no idea what your understanding is.....I literally took 2 full weeks course with MS just to understand the Win10 licensing for VDI (Hyper-v & VMware View) & cloud PAAS & IAAS offerings (that was in 2018).
    In more simple terms MS365 E5 would contain 3 parts (for context of this discussion)
    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkID=2139145&clcid=0x4809&culture=en-sg&country=SGOpens a new window
    - MS office
    - Exchange Online
    - Windows 11 Enterprise* (This is a per device license, used to upgrade Windows 11 qualifying products).

    You do understand that all you need for VDI solution is Windows 11 Professional licenses with active SA or active VDA. You do not need to upgrade all the VMs OS to Windows 11 Enterprise.
    https://liliputing.com/differences-between-windows-11-home-pro-enterprise-and-education/Opens a new window

    If you really want to do a "self-understanding" & not rely on MS vendors, which is a good thing, you must read all these documentation head to toe paying special attention to details & fine prints......not just reading what you want to read or what you think applies to your set up.  

    Then what do you mean by "virtualization hosts" ? If you read the T&Cs of VDI requirements and/or Windows 10 & Windows 11 VDI solutions, these VMs need dedicated hosts...... literally means they cannot be hosted on-premise with other non-Windows 10 VMs & non-Windows 11 VMs.

    Then it is more interesting here. When you say the Windows 11 Enterprise is per device, it found it to be per user.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/OLOpens a new window

    When I said "on-premises virtualization hosts", I actually mean a piece of owned server hardware that could be put on the rack inside on-premises office locations or colocation datacenters. However, I only found hardware dedicated for customer use but not anything about running non-Windows VM on top of the same hypervisor.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/WindowsDesktopOperatingSystem/OLOpens a new window

    And for Microsoft Azure case, I don't event see hardware requirements but just being on customer's account will do.



    Please tell me if I am still getting wrong. Thanks.

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    For VDI, there is a need to have VDA unless it is a qualified OS.

    Then to upgrade to Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise.....the host must first have a qualifying OS.

    You cannot use OEM licenses for VDI as no Windows 10 or 11 Professional licenses are sold with server hardware. You need to get Windows 10 & 11 professional licenses via EAP, MPSA or MCA (Cloud agreements).
    You cannot "buy" Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise licenses.....it is an UPGRADE licenses which means you need must first be licensed to run one of the qualifying operating systems like Windows 10 & 11 Professional.

    If you look at page 9, SA is required for 
    - Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) that allows you to virtualize the Windows 10 & 11 Professional or Upgraded Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise
    - Windows Virtual Desktop Access (VDA) Rights for access to the VDI sessions etc

    Perhaps I am not saying it clearly again.

    As far as my understanding, the device needs the license is the accessing side (the client device where OEM or retail license is possible) but not the server itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

    After assigning Windows Enterprise E3 upgrade license to the users of the accessing device with qualifying OS, the Azure VMs running Windows Client can be created and in case of SA it can be on-premises virtualization hosts, am I right?

    I really got no idea what your understanding is.....I literally took 2 full weeks course with MS just to understand the Win10 licensing for VDI (Hyper-v & VMware View) & cloud PAAS & IAAS offerings (that was in 2018).
    In more simple terms MS365 E5 would contain 3 parts (for context of this discussion)
    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkID=2139145&clcid=0x4809&culture=en-sg&country=SGOpens a new window
    - MS office
    - Exchange Online
    - Windows 11 Enterprise* (This is a per device license, used to upgrade Windows 11 qualifying products).

    You do understand that all you need for VDI solution is Windows 11 Professional licenses with active SA or active VDA. You do not need to upgrade all the VMs OS to Windows 11 Enterprise.
    https://liliputing.com/differences-between-windows-11-home-pro-enterprise-and-education/Opens a new window

    If you really want to do a "self-understanding" & not rely on MS vendors, which is a good thing, you must read all these documentation head to toe paying special attention to details & fine prints......not just reading what you want to read or what you think applies to your set up.  

    Then what do you mean by "virtualization hosts" ? If you read the T&Cs of VDI requirements and/or Windows 10 & Windows 11 VDI solutions, these VMs need dedicated hosts...... literally means they cannot be hosted on-premise with other non-Windows 10 VMs & non-Windows 11 VMs.

    Then it is more interesting here. When you say the Windows 11 Enterprise is per device, it found it to be per user.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/OLOpens a new window

    When I said "on-premises virtualization hosts", I actually mean a piece of owned server hardware that could be put on the rack inside on-premises office locations or colocation datacenters. However, I only found hardware dedicated for customer use but not anything about running non-Windows VM on top of the same hypervisor.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/WindowsDesktopOperatingSystem/OLOpens a new window

    And for Microsoft Azure case, I don't event see hardware requirements but just being on customer's account will do.



    Please tell me if I am still getting wrong. Thanks.

    Bro....thats why I tell you to go find MS professional resellers....

    If you want to read, you need to read in details....like you missed the first like that states "  is governed by the License Terms of the individual products" where the Windows 11 OS rights supersedes the Windows 11 Enterprise upgrade subscription. So for you to apply the details, you first need to read the Windows 11 Professional licensing.

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).


    I really got no idea what your understanding is.....I literally took 2 full weeks course with MS just to understand the Win10 licensing for VDI (Hyper-v & VMware View) & cloud PAAS & IAAS offerings (that was in 2018).
    In more simple terms MS365 E5 would contain 3 parts (for context of this discussion)
    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkID=2139145&clcid=0x4809&culture=en-sg&country=SGOpens a new window
    - MS office
    - Exchange Online
    - Windows 11 Enterprise* (This is a per device license, used to upgrade Windows 11 qualifying products).

    You do understand that all you need for VDI solution is Windows 11 Professional licenses with active SA or active VDA. You do not need to upgrade all the VMs OS to Windows 11 Enterprise.
    https://liliputing.com/differences-between-windows-11-home-pro-enterprise-and-education/Opens a new window

    If you really want to do a "self-understanding" & not rely on MS vendors, which is a good thing, you must read all these documentation head to toe paying special attention to details & fine prints......not just reading what you want to read or what you think applies to your set up.  

    Then what do you mean by "virtualization hosts" ? If you read the T&Cs of VDI requirements and/or Windows 10 & Windows 11 VDI solutions, these VMs need dedicated hosts...... literally means they cannot be hosted on-premise with other non-Windows 10 VMs & non-Windows 11 VMs.

    When I said "on-premises virtualization hosts", I actually mean a piece of owned server hardware that could be put on the rack inside on-premises office locations or colocation datacenters. However, I only found hardware dedicated for customer use but not anything about running non-Windows VM on top of the same hypervisor.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/WindowsDesktopOperatingSystem/OLOpens a new window

    If you want to divert the attention to on-prem VDI solutions.....this is what to read...they have changed much from Windows 10 version or maybe there is another doc that also describes the SA & VDA requirements. 

    https://aka.ms/BriefWindowslicensingforVirtualDesktopsOpens a new window

    Anyway.....I think you have digress and should really speak to a MS authorised vendor since you are on Azure WVDs 

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  • adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    I am migration from standalone Windows 10 Enterprise E3 online subscription to Microsoft 365 E3 online subscription. However, I am seeing this in the terms.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/MOSAOpens a new window

    Does this mean I am losing the VDI rights (except the specific Azure Virtual Desktop feature instead of standalone Azure VM)?

    However, I am seeing contradiction on docs.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/windows-desktop-multitenant-hosting...Opens a new window

    Who is your Authorized MS Vendor and why are they not advising you on this ??

    1. These are based on roaming profiles and/or VDI where each user can "move" to any machine especially in VDI linked clones.

    2. Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise is not an OS license but an UPGRADE based on subscription to existing Windows 10 & 11 Licenses based on qualifying underlying OS. That means for VDI, you will need to have an existing Windows 10 & 11 Professional License with SA so that you can apply the Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise upgrade licenses. Windows 10 & 11 home editions cannot be used.

    Another question about the SA path, why the professional license needs an SA? but not starting straight away from Windows 10/11 Pro from OEM or retail directly to Enterprise SA?

    Page 7:

    https://download.microsoft.com/download/2/d/1/2d14fe17-66c2-4d4c-af73-e122930b60f6/windows-10-volume...Opens a new window

    For VDI, there is a need to have VDA unless it is a qualified OS.

    Then to upgrade to Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise.....the host must first have a qualifying OS.

    You cannot use OEM licenses for VDI as no Windows 10 or 11 Professional licenses are sold with server hardware. You need to get Windows 10 & 11 professional licenses via EAP, MPSA or MCA (Cloud agreements).
    You cannot "buy" Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise licenses.....it is an UPGRADE licenses which means you need must first be licensed to run one of the qualifying operating systems like Windows 10 & 11 Professional.

    If you look at page 9, SA is required for 
    - Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) that allows you to virtualize the Windows 10 & 11 Professional or Upgraded Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise
    - Windows Virtual Desktop Access (VDA) Rights for access to the VDI sessions etc

    Perhaps I am not saying it clearly again.

    As far as my understanding, the device needs the license is the accessing side (the client device where OEM or retail license is possible) but not the server itself. Correct me if I am wrong.

    After assigning Windows Enterprise E3 upgrade license to the users of the accessing device with qualifying OS, the Azure VMs running Windows Client can be created and in case of SA it can be on-premises virtualization hosts, am I right?

    I really got no idea what your understanding is.....I literally took 2 full weeks course with MS just to understand the Win10 licensing for VDI (Hyper-v & VMware View) & cloud PAAS & IAAS offerings (that was in 2018).
    In more simple terms MS365 E5 would contain 3 parts (for context of this discussion)
    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkID=2139145&clcid=0x4809&culture=en-sg&country=SGOpens a new window
    - MS office
    - Exchange Online
    - Windows 11 Enterprise* (This is a per device license, used to upgrade Windows 11 qualifying products).

    You do understand that all you need for VDI solution is Windows 11 Professional licenses with active SA or active VDA. You do not need to upgrade all the VMs OS to Windows 11 Enterprise.
    https://liliputing.com/differences-between-windows-11-home-pro-enterprise-and-education/Opens a new window

    If you really want to do a "self-understanding" & not rely on MS vendors, which is a good thing, you must read all these documentation head to toe paying special attention to details & fine prints......not just reading what you want to read or what you think applies to your set up.  

    Then what do you mean by "virtualization hosts" ? If you read the T&Cs of VDI requirements and/or Windows 10 & Windows 11 VDI solutions, these VMs need dedicated hosts...... literally means they cannot be hosted on-premise with other non-Windows 10 VMs & non-Windows 11 VMs.

    Then it is more interesting here. When you say the Windows 11 Enterprise is per device, it found it to be per user.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/OLOpens a new window

    When I said "on-premises virtualization hosts", I actually mean a piece of owned server hardware that could be put on the rack inside on-premises office locations or colocation datacenters. However, I only found hardware dedicated for customer use but not anything about running non-Windows VM on top of the same hypervisor.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/WindowsDesktopOperatingSystem/OLOpens a new window

    And for Microsoft Azure case, I don't event see hardware requirements but just being on customer's account will do.



    Please tell me if I am still getting wrong. Thanks.

    Bro....thats why I tell you to go find MS professional resellers....

    If you want to read, you need to read in details....like you missed the first like that states "  is governed by the License Terms of the individual products" where the Windows 11 OS rights supersedes the Windows 11 Enterprise upgrade subscription. So for you to apply the details, you first need to read the Windows 11 Professional licensing.

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    Maybe I didn't use the correct terms? When I say VDI I am talking about running Windows client VMs on Azure.
    I migrated to Microsoft 365 E3 to combine different products and add Conditional Access. It was M365 Business Standard + Windows Enterprise E3 originally. They are all commercial direct subscriptions without a third-party reseller involved, whether old and new, and nothing to do with SA.

    I tot your question was based on that 2 statements you pasted vs "loss of VDI rights" ??
    Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise have nothing really to do directly with VDI unless for the link clones or cloning portion whereby all you need is one copy of the MSCL Windows 10 & 11 Enterprise license.....MS365 evolved from Office 365 which came as a later version of MS Office 20xx that included Exchange Online Licenses as well).


    I really got no idea what your understanding is.....I literally took 2 full weeks course with MS just to understand the Win10 licensing for VDI (Hyper-v & VMware View) & cloud PAAS & IAAS offerings (that was in 2018).
    In more simple terms MS365 E5 would contain 3 parts (for context of this discussion)
    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkID=2139145&clcid=0x4809&culture=en-sg&country=SGOpens a new window
    - MS office
    - Exchange Online
    - Windows 11 Enterprise* (This is a per device license, used to upgrade Windows 11 qualifying products).

    You do understand that all you need for VDI solution is Windows 11 Professional licenses with active SA or active VDA. You do not need to upgrade all the VMs OS to Windows 11 Enterprise.
    https://liliputing.com/differences-between-windows-11-home-pro-enterprise-and-education/Opens a new window

    If you really want to do a "self-understanding" & not rely on MS vendors, which is a good thing, you must read all these documentation head to toe paying special attention to details & fine prints......not just reading what you want to read or what you think applies to your set up.  

    Then what do you mean by "virtualization hosts" ? If you read the T&Cs of VDI requirements and/or Windows 10 & Windows 11 VDI solutions, these VMs need dedicated hosts...... literally means they cannot be hosted on-premise with other non-Windows 10 VMs & non-Windows 11 VMs.

    When I said "on-premises virtualization hosts", I actually mean a piece of owned server hardware that could be put on the rack inside on-premises office locations or colocation datacenters. However, I only found hardware dedicated for customer use but not anything about running non-Windows VM on top of the same hypervisor.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/WindowsDesktopOperatingSystem/OLOpens a new window

    If you want to divert the attention to on-prem VDI solutions.....this is what to read...they have changed much from Windows 10 version or maybe there is another doc that also describes the SA & VDA requirements. 

    https://aka.ms/BriefWindowslicensingforVirtualDesktopsOpens a new window

    Anyway.....I think you have digress and should really speak to a MS authorised vendor since you are on Azure WVDs 

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365/OLOpens a new window

    Quoting the first sentence:
    "Microsoft 365 is governed by the License Terms of the individual products and services comprising Microsoft 365, as modified by the License Terms in this Microsoft 365 Product Entry."

    Based on the text, what I see is the license terms of the items containing Microsoft 365, and then modified by Microsoft 365 License Terms. It is in the other way round, hence M365 license > individual products. However, I don't see the relationship between Windows Pro licensing (the qualifying OS) and here because Windows Pro is itself not part of the M365 license itself but something the device is already running.

    Did I get it wrong again?

    I think I have to make the licensing concept of generic Windows Enterprise per user upgrade license clear before moving to the original question I would like to ask. I don't mean to divert to on-premises solutions.

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  • khtsang​ MS Windows 11 licensing is a complicated matter and it takes a book of 128 pages to cover (mine was based on Windows 10).

    You can read about Windows 11 home Edition vs Windows 11 Professional Edition or Windows 11 Enterprise upgrade for qualifying products.

    Then there are the features and limitations of the different sales channels like OEM, Retail, MSVL (like Open License, Open Value, EA, EA Programs), MSPA, Cloud Subscription etc 

    Lastly there are also many changes to the T&Cs of the licensing....
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/licensing/news/options-for-hosted-cloudOpens a new window
    https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/31/cloud_rivals_hit_back_at/Opens a new window

    So you cannot say Windows 11 Professional OEM on a manufacturer lappy have the same T&Cs as Windows 11 licensing )Pro or Enterprise) On-prem VDI solution or the same T&Cs as BYOD licenses on Azure or even BYOD licensing on AWS or GCP.

    So if you want to talk MS licensing....you will need to talk with regards platform and solution implemented. You cannot just keep switching examples as it will never end !!!

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang​ MS Windows 11 licensing is a complicated matter and it takes a book of 128 pages to cover (mine was based on Windows 10).

    You can read about Windows 11 home Edition vs Windows 11 Professional Edition or Windows 11 Enterprise upgrade for qualifying products.

    Then there are the features and limitations of the different sales channels like OEM, Retail, MSVL (like Open License, Open Value, EA, EA Programs), MSPA, Cloud Subscription etc 

    Lastly there are also many changes to the T&Cs of the licensing....
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/licensing/news/options-for-hosted-cloudOpens a new window
    https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/31/cloud_rivals_hit_back_at/Opens a new window

    So you cannot say Windows 11 Professional OEM on a manufacturer lappy have the same T&Cs as Windows 11 licensing )Pro or Enterprise) On-prem VDI solution or the same T&Cs as BYOD licenses on Azure or even BYOD licensing on AWS or GCP.

    So if you want to talk MS licensing....you will need to talk with regards platform and solution implemented. You cannot just keep switching examples as it will never end !!!

    Let's go back to the original question I am asking. What is the second modification about?

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  • My understanding is that the M365 licenses really upends a lot of what used to be correct about licensing.

    For example, if a user has a M365 license, then they don't need separate Windows CALs for you on prem servers. Nor would they need Exchange CALs. They do still need RDP CALs.

    I also think that VDI rights are enabled, due to the inclusion of Windows 11 Enterprise. No SA needed, because M365 is already a subscription.

    1 found this helpful thumb_up thumb_down
  • kevinmhsieh wrote:

    My understanding is that the M365 licenses really upends a lot of what used to be correct about licensing.

    For example, if a user has a M365 license, then they don't need separate Windows CALs for you on prem servers. Nor would they need Exchange CALs. They do still need RDP CALs.

    I also think that VDI rights are enabled, due to the inclusion of Windows 11 Enterprise. No SA needed, because M365 is already a subscription.

    Actually I just checked my my MS vendors (2 of them and they are looking into the SA part).....

    The thing is that Win 11 Enterprise is an upgrade product to be only used on Qualifying Products.
    - But if that "Qualifying Products" are VMs on a VDI solution, that underlying Windows 10 Professional needs to have SA first.
    - If that  "Qualifying Products" are machines like Dell or HP lappy or PC with Win10 Pro (OEM or otherwise), they do not need SA.

    Then OP khtsang​ did bring up a valid point about Win11 Enterprise being a per user while previously & currently Win10 Pro (OL,EA, EAP or MSPA) is per device (or per VM if used in VDI).....Coz we are using the "licenses" on-prem VMware View VDI where we only have like 1000 users but we create 1100 to 1200 (N + 200 standby) "linked clones" as standby so that users can login faster....but we only have 1000 licenses.

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • adrian_ych wrote:

    kevinmhsieh wrote:

    My understanding is that the M365 licenses really upends a lot of what used to be correct about licensing.

    For example, if a user has a M365 license, then they don't need separate Windows CALs for you on prem servers. Nor would they need Exchange CALs. They do still need RDP CALs.

    I also think that VDI rights are enabled, due to the inclusion of Windows 11 Enterprise. No SA needed, because M365 is already a subscription.

    Actually I just checked my my MS vendors (2 of them and they are looking into the SA part).....

    The thing is that Win 11 Enterprise is an upgrade product to be only used on Qualifying Products.
    - But if that "Qualifying Products" are VMs on a VDI solution, that underlying Windows 10 Professional needs to have SA first.
    - If that  "Qualifying Products" are machines like Dell or HP lappy or PC with Win10 Pro (OEM or otherwise), they do not need SA.

    Then OP khtsang​ did bring up a valid point about Win11 Enterprise being a per user while previously & currently Win10 Pro (OL,EA, EAP or MSPA) is per device (or per VM if used in VDI).....Coz we are using the "licenses" on-prem VMware View VDI where we only have like 1000 users but we create 1100 to 1200 (N + 200 standby) "linked clones" as standby so that users can login faster....but we only have 1000 licenses.

    As far as my understanding, the license sits on the accessing user instead of the remote VM itself (nor its hypervisor/host machine) for per user license. Maybe things had changed comparing to old days.

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    kevinmhsieh wrote:

    My understanding is that the M365 licenses really upends a lot of what used to be correct about licensing.

    For example, if a user has a M365 license, then they don't need separate Windows CALs for you on prem servers. Nor would they need Exchange CALs. They do still need RDP CALs.

    I also think that VDI rights are enabled, due to the inclusion of Windows 11 Enterprise. No SA needed, because M365 is already a subscription.

    Actually I just checked my my MS vendors (2 of them and they are looking into the SA part).....

    The thing is that Win 11 Enterprise is an upgrade product to be only used on Qualifying Products.
    - But if that "Qualifying Products" are VMs on a VDI solution, that underlying Windows 10 Professional needs to have SA first.
    - If that  "Qualifying Products" are machines like Dell or HP lappy or PC with Win10 Pro (OEM or otherwise), they do not need SA.

    Then OP khtsang​ did bring up a valid point about Win11 Enterprise being a per user while previously & currently Win10 Pro (OL,EA, EAP or MSPA) is per device (or per VM if used in VDI).....Coz we are using the "licenses" on-prem VMware View VDI where we only have like 1000 users but we create 1100 to 1200 (N + 200 standby) "linked clones" as standby so that users can login faster....but we only have 1000 licenses.

    As far as my understanding, the license sits on the accessing user instead of the remote VM itself (nor its hypervisor/host machine) for per user license. Maybe things had changed comparing to old days.

    Thats the problem......the E3 & E5 "license" have so many components.....

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    kevinmhsieh wrote:

    My understanding is that the M365 licenses really upends a lot of what used to be correct about licensing.

    For example, if a user has a M365 license, then they don't need separate Windows CALs for you on prem servers. Nor would they need Exchange CALs. They do still need RDP CALs.

    I also think that VDI rights are enabled, due to the inclusion of Windows 11 Enterprise. No SA needed, because M365 is already a subscription.

    Actually I just checked my my MS vendors (2 of them and they are looking into the SA part).....

    The thing is that Win 11 Enterprise is an upgrade product to be only used on Qualifying Products.
    - But if that "Qualifying Products" are VMs on a VDI solution, that underlying Windows 10 Professional needs to have SA first.
    - If that  "Qualifying Products" are machines like Dell or HP lappy or PC with Win10 Pro (OEM or otherwise), they do not need SA.

    Then OP khtsang​ did bring up a valid point about Win11 Enterprise being a per user while previously & currently Win10 Pro (OL,EA, EAP or MSPA) is per device (or per VM if used in VDI).....Coz we are using the "licenses" on-prem VMware View VDI where we only have like 1000 users but we create 1100 to 1200 (N + 200 standby) "linked clones" as standby so that users can login faster....but we only have 1000 licenses.

    As far as my understanding, the license sits on the accessing user instead of the remote VM itself (nor its hypervisor/host machine) for per user license. Maybe things had changed comparing to old days.

    Thats the problem......the E3 & E5 "license" have so many components.....

    I bought the license from MS itself inside the admin portal, not from a reseller.

    I tried to raise support tickets (finally both M365 and Azure) but seems cannot answer all my concerns on one end alone up to now. Maybe the product is really very complicated.

    Was this post helpful? thumb_up thumb_down
  • khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    kevinmhsieh wrote:

    My understanding is that the M365 licenses really upends a lot of what used to be correct about licensing.

    For example, if a user has a M365 license, then they don't need separate Windows CALs for you on prem servers. Nor would they need Exchange CALs. They do still need RDP CALs.

    I also think that VDI rights are enabled, due to the inclusion of Windows 11 Enterprise. No SA needed, because M365 is already a subscription.

    Actually I just checked my my MS vendors (2 of them and they are looking into the SA part).....

    The thing is that Win 11 Enterprise is an upgrade product to be only used on Qualifying Products.
    - But if that "Qualifying Products" are VMs on a VDI solution, that underlying Windows 10 Professional needs to have SA first.
    - If that  "Qualifying Products" are machines like Dell or HP lappy or PC with Win10 Pro (OEM or otherwise), they do not need SA.

    Then OP khtsang​ did bring up a valid point about Win11 Enterprise being a per user while previously & currently Win10 Pro (OL,EA, EAP or MSPA) is per device (or per VM if used in VDI).....Coz we are using the "licenses" on-prem VMware View VDI where we only have like 1000 users but we create 1100 to 1200 (N + 200 standby) "linked clones" as standby so that users can login faster....but we only have 1000 licenses.

    As far as my understanding, the license sits on the accessing user instead of the remote VM itself (nor its hypervisor/host machine) for per user license. Maybe things had changed comparing to old days.

    Thats the problem......the E3 & E5 "license" have so many components.....

    I bought the license from MS itself inside the admin portal, not from a reseller.

    I tried to raise support tickets (finally both M365 and Azure) but seems cannot answer all my concerns on one end alone up to now. Maybe the product is really very complicated.

    That I would have to agree.....it is a licensing model that consist of a few products include an upgrade for a product (Windows 11 Enterprise) that have requirements for different use cases. Other than that, MS Office 365, Emails etc are rather straight forward 

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  • adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    khtsang wrote:

    adrian_ych wrote:

    kevinmhsieh wrote:

    My understanding is that the M365 licenses really upends a lot of what used to be correct about licensing.

    For example, if a user has a M365 license, then they don't need separate Windows CALs for you on prem servers. Nor would they need Exchange CALs. They do still need RDP CALs.

    I also think that VDI rights are enabled, due to the inclusion of Windows 11 Enterprise. No SA needed, because M365 is already a subscription.

    Actually I just checked my my MS vendors (2 of them and they are looking into the SA part).....

    The thing is that Win 11 Enterprise is an upgrade product to be only used on Qualifying Products.
    - But if that "Qualifying Products" are VMs on a VDI solution, that underlying Windows 10 Professional needs to have SA first.
    - If that  "Qualifying Products" are machines like Dell or HP lappy or PC with Win10 Pro (OEM or otherwise), they do not need SA.

    Then OP khtsang​ did bring up a valid point about Win11 Enterprise being a per user while previously & currently Win10 Pro (OL,EA, EAP or MSPA) is per device (or per VM if used in VDI).....Coz we are using the "licenses" on-prem VMware View VDI where we only have like 1000 users but we create 1100 to 1200 (N + 200 standby) "linked clones" as standby so that users can login faster....but we only have 1000 licenses.

    As far as my understanding, the license sits on the accessing user instead of the remote VM itself (nor its hypervisor/host machine) for per user license. Maybe things had changed comparing to old days.

    Thats the problem......the E3 & E5 "license" have so many components.....

    I bought the license from MS itself inside the admin portal, not from a reseller.

    I tried to raise support tickets (finally both M365 and Azure) but seems cannot answer all my concerns on one end alone up to now. Maybe the product is really very complicated.

    That I would have to agree.....it is a licensing model that consist of a few products include an upgrade for a product (Windows 11 Enterprise) that have requirements for different use cases. Other than that, MS Office 365, Emails etc are rather straight forward 

    The even more interesting bit is MS is actually selling Windows subscriptions and subscriptions containing Windows in M365 admin portal (MOSA) but didn't publish the terms. 

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/WindowsDesktopOperatingSystem/MOSAOpens a new window

    MS Office 365 is not completely clear to me either.

    https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/terms/productoffering/Microsoft365Applications/MOSAOpens a new window
    For tablet case, it says "Microsoft Office" instead of "the software". The problem comes when running the desktop version on Surface device. Although the guide separates the quota for PC and tablet, installing on Surface will end up with "PC Only" apps on a tablet. Based on the docs MS makes it 10 (as of 04 Oct 2022). Maybe running desktop version on Windows tablet can still count as a tablet.
    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/overview-licensing-activation-microsoft-365-appsOpens a new window
    I don't have that many devices hence there is no immediate concern with this.



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  • One thing I've found is that absolutely no one, including Microsoft's own licensing specialists, understands Microsoft licensing.  Personally, I think it's on purpose, so they can send auditors into a large corporations sites and just rake in the fines, or in most cases, the additional costs for a true-up.  While I was working at the North American headquarters of a well known Japanese manufacturer with 15,000+ users in our location, Microsoft sent KPMG in to audit.  $4M in fines, fees and upgrades later, it turned out only one small project group of 20 users was actually compliant.  It's a scam, a legal scam, but still a scam.  Some over-reaching governing body needs to set and enforce plain language rules for software licensing.

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
    1 found this helpful thumb_up thumb_down
  • s31064 wrote:

    One thing I've found is that absolutely no one, including Microsoft's own licensing specialists, understands Microsoft licensing.  Personally, I think it's on purpose, so they can send auditors into a large corporations sites and just rake in the fines, or in most cases, the additional costs for a true-up.  While I was working at the North American headquarters of a well known Japanese manufacturer with 15,000+ users in our location, Microsoft sent KPMG in to audit.  $4M in fines, fees and upgrades later, it turned out only one small project group of 20 users was actually compliant.  It's a scam, a legal scam, but still a scam.  Some over-reaching governing body needs to set and enforce plain language rules for software licensing.

    Hear hear.  

    If you want to buy shoes, you give someone money and you leave with shoes.  If you want to buy a car, you give someone money and drive your car home.  If you want to buy food, you give someone money and you go home and cook supper.  It should not require a two-week training course to buy software.  And as far as I'm aware, Microsoft is the only company that works like this (that I have experience of anyway).  No other software I've ever purchased has required this much nonsense just to get a legal set of numbers and letters to use.  

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • oh try any of the big Software suppliers - Oracle, SAP, IBM, probably others,  all infamous for how they can tie software license terms up in knots to squeeze every last drop of money out of a customer.

    <snip>

      No other software I've ever purchased has required this much nonsense just to get a legal set of numbers and letters to use.  

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