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  • Robert5205 wrote:

    Priscilla@HP wrote:

    Hello Robert, you and the other IT Pros have been heard. In fact, your topic was on the agenda for our checkpoint meeting today. The action item is your post will be sent to one of our HP printer product managers to get confirmation that the sales tool you desire does not currently exist at HP and to see if replacement equivalent functionality can be added to the HP sales site.  It was felt that one reason such a tool may not be available is the end of life product information is not at this time kept on the sales site.  And there was agreement that it would be nice to have such a tool.  I will return to the post when an update arrives.

    Just recently a member PM'd me requesting the direct replacement for one of his LaserJets.  HP sales staff was able to provide me with the product quickly.  I know you IT Pros prefer online tools to conduct your own research, etc.;  however, until such a tool becomes available, HP sales staff should be able to provide you with the HP replacement printer.  

    That's great news, Priscilla. It may take some time to set up, but HP/HPE has set the bar very high when it comes to great online tools. The ProLiant memory configurator, for example, is a joy to operate and gives you everything you need in one click. Maybe your team could take a look at that for a model of how-to.

    Can't wait to hear back. And thanks for the offer of HP one-on-one help.

    Hello Robert, always grateful for your constructive and positive comments.  And the other IT Pros have alerted me that you had responded.  What a Community!  Thank you.  

    "Can't wait to hear back?"  Good news has arrived like lightning from one of HP's managers (to whom our SMB liaison sent this post).  This manager supports having the replacement feature be visible to customers and has provided a very encouraging reply. 

    To protect confidentiality, I have included excerpts from the response.  As mentioned yesterday, one suspected challenge was the EOL data.  The manager confirms this.  "The issue that we have is ...controlling the EOL (lost in so many changes)"And members, hear this fantastic news:  "... so now we are trying to promote this with PM [Product Manager] again...:  After a determination is made regarding the EOL, the replacement has to be added.  "... all this will be setup in the back end system and reflects everywhereWe will do a re-train with them to push for this;  I just forwarded  this mail so they are aware of the importance of this part.

    Thanks"

     


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    163 Replies

    • I hear you - always a fun exercise to find the right replacement.  That's where I use my 3rd party vendor that I have a great relationship with. I tell them I need printer X, they come back and say sorry those ones EOL, but these X units are similar, with the same features and  add-ons you usually look for.

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    • Years ago HP had something like that as they had a page where you could look up your printer and it would show the replacement for it. It at times was not the best as sometimes the replacement model would be discontinued as well and then the search would begin again.

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    • Robert3914 wrote:

      Years ago HP had something like that as they had a page where you could look up your printer and it would show the replacement for it. It at times was not the best as sometimes the replacement model would be discontinued as well and then the search would begin again.

      They do still have a printer selector, which I find to be useful, but you can't look up printers based on a specific model:

      http://helpmechoose.ext.hp.com/

      Robert, I think you're on to something here.

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    • The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

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    • Not sure something as simple as that would ever enter the minds of the people in those companies making the decisions. Logic and forethought are often afterthoughts.

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    • I have a brand new remanufactured 20 year old HP 9050 coming next month.  I'm pretty excited. 300,000 page per month duty cycle and 11x17 printing? Yes please.

      I feel your pain. I have been recently looking for a cheap laser printer that can do 11x17... It's amazing, none of the manufacturers that I can think of will let me add 11x17 as the first and most important search/filtering criteria.

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    • I remember the HP one... The companies don't want this, because how else could they get you to engage a salesperson that will then do a required needs assessment in order to tell you what printer you SHOULD have, instead of the one you think you want?

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    • Mike400 wrote:

      The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

      And there's the T-shirt to promote the new printer selection app, right?

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    • Going through this exact problem right now.

      The problem with HP's printer selector is that it starts out narrowing down the selection based on arbitrary factors that I don't agree with, and then you can't see the full selection OR look at the next model up to see if the extra $50 gets you a lot more features.

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    • Troy Jollimore wrote:

      I remember the HP one... The companies don't want this, because how else could they get you to engage a salesperson that will then do a required needs assessment in order to tell you what printer you SHOULD have, instead of the one you think you want?

      So, instead, people end up purchasing something different than what they need in an effort to avoid talking with the high-pressure salespeople, and then completely hate the manufacturer because the printer isn't what they really needed and they're frustrated over not being able to get the right one to begin with.

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    • Robert5205 wrote:

      Enter your current printer model: ___________

      And then it says, politely, That printer is discontinued. Here are some models you should consider for a replacement.

      1. Models with similar page per month ratings.
      2. Models with similar print speed.
      3. Models with similar features (duplex, network, fax, etc.)
      4. Models with similar cost-per-page.
      5. Models that use the same ink/toner.

      You know, they have these things called databases now that you could run queries against. Is that too much to ask? You could even accept other brand printers and suggest your brand replacements. Imagine being the first company to do this...

      Let me get this straight - you want printer manufacturers to do the same thing that UPS manufacturers have been doing for many years?

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    • Mike400 wrote:

      The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

      So much this!

      I also wouldn't mind if, when they do end one model and move to the next, KEEP THE SAME TONER AND DRUM as the previous model!! Stop changing them every time you update a model. I don't even want to think of all the money wasted on drums and toner cartridges that don't fit a new model and are immediately useless, unless you still have another that uses the same TN / DR models.

      Specifically looking at you "Brother". Ugh.......

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    • This is a great post Robert.  I totally agree.

      One of the things I like about working with CDW, is if I have purchased something in the past and have a CDW part number and I go to purchase it again and CDW no longer carries that item, the site will say "We couldn't find that item, but found THIS similar item you might want to check out".  That is pretty sweet.  Saves me from starting ALL over again with a search

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    • Captain Frostbyte wrote:

      I hear you - always a fun exercise to find the right replacement.  That's where I use my 3rd party vendor that I have a great relationship with. I tell them I need printer X, they come back and say sorry those ones EOL, but these X units are similar, with the same features and  add-ons you usually look for.

      I do this as well - I've LONG since tired of hunting replacement printers and have a vendor who does all the legwork for me. Users can wait. We have several "common area" Konicas around the site shared to their PCs by default.

      They can deal with the 10-30-ish foot walk for a while versus using the desktop printer they're SO used to [read: spoiled by] that they can roll to it in their chair and never have to look at the printer. Unbelievable muscle memory for several folks around here.

      We have, and I've watched, two users in particular roll their chair across the open floor plan office space they're in, over to a desktop printer about 20 feet away, grab the pages, then roll back to their desk without ever taking their eyes off their monitor (playing youtube videos or something stupid - we aren't allowed to disable youtube per the owner...different discussion / different day). IMO they could USE the occasional walk over to the frickin copier just to pry their tails from the chair for a sec! 

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    • Printers are the bane of my existence.

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    • Good luck getting them to change the way they do business. Printing companies still encourage the world to use faxing yet we have, I believe it is called e...mail? Let me know when they listen to you, I will keep you in my thoughts as you tackle that mountain.

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    • I hate the dam flashy websites you have to navigate that give so little info its not worth your time.

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    • I LOATHE having to go to HP's website to even find the correct printer drivers. Heinous!

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    • Dennis72 wrote:

      Mike400 wrote:

      The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

      So much this!

      I also wouldn't mind if, when they do end one model and move to the next, KEEP THE SAME TONER AND DRUM as the previous model!! Stop changing them every time you update a model. I don't even want to think of all the money wasted on drums and toner cartridges that don't fit a new model and are immediately useless, unless you still have another that uses the same TN / DR models.

      Specifically looking at you "Brother". Ugh.......

      And transfer rollers and pick-up rollers and fusers and......

      OK, so we're really just talking about keeping the printer the same ;)

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    • Hey Robert, I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if there is ever anything that you need on the Epson side of things I am absolutely available and happy to help in any way that I can! I know it isn't a complete solution to your problem, but if you ever have any questions about replacement options or comparable printers to Epson products that you had or are interested in, I would be more than happy to reach out to my team to get you as much information as I can! So please don't hesitate to reach out anytime! 

      • local_offer Tagged Items
      • epsonepson
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    • Lexmark has a basic version that will ask you for:

      How many pages per month

      Paper size

      Color or mono

      printer or MFP

      Not the best but atleast a starting point.

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    • Woooosh!

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    • Troy Jollimore wrote:

      I remember the HP one... The companies don't want this, because how else could they get you to engage a salesperson that will then do a required needs assessment in order to tell you what printer you SHOULD have, instead of the one you think you want?

      I think you're probably right, but there are customers like me that will probably not buy a [name your product] if I can get it somewhere else without engaging a salesperson.

      When a product description includes "call for pricing", my mind translates that to, "type competitor's url in address bar, press enter".

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    • It would be sweet if manufacturer websites could have a IT pro page.  Something that cuts through the marketing flair that is often targeted at non-IT professionals.

      Provide a page that gives concise, accurate, information and a list of your products.  Make sure the information is all laid out exactly the same model to model and in a manner than can be easily compared!  Maybe even have a quick questionnaire that is able to be bypassed which helps pre-filter the page.

      Kinda like this:


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    • Nice to at least see some printer reps reading this thread. Maybe this idea will make it up to decision makers. And I think you're right. The first company to do this (because this is what we consumers want) will make a profit simply due to the convenience of not having to sort through useless selectors on competitors websites. 

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    • I hate having to deal with printers in general.  Most of the time it is because the manufacturer had done something to it is the reason why it is having issues.  I personally like to stick with brands I know are good like HP, Brother, Dell, etc. I hate when it is discontinued too because then I have to find a compatible printer that has the same exact functions on it because I don't need all these fancy functions or extra ones that come with the printers sometimes.

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    • Haley for Epson wrote:

      Hey Robert, I just wanted to jump in here and let you know if there is ever anything that you need on the Epson side of things I am absolutely available and happy to help in any way that I can! I know it isn't a complete solution to your problem, but if you ever have any questions about replacement options or comparable printers to Epson products that you had or are interested in, I would be more than happy to reach out to my team to get you as much information as I can! So please don't hesitate to reach out anytime! 

      You're on.

      I had three Epson WP-4020s printers (not all-in-ones. I don't want "copier" functions). They take 676XL ink. The printers were great. The ink is inexpensive. One died. Then, a second one just imploded - requests cleaning constantly.

      What printer do you have that will let me keep a single ink in stock for that and the still remaining WP4020?

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    • xxNPxx wrote:

      It would be sweet if manufacturer websites could have a IT pro page.  Something that cuts through the marketing flair that is often targeted at non-IT professionals.

      Provide a page that gives concise, accurate, information and a list of your products.  Make sure the information is all laid out exactly the same model to model and in a manner than can be easily compared!  Maybe even have a quick questionnaire that is able to be bypassed which helps pre-filter the page.

      Kinda like this:

      If only Shibboleet were real! It would save me sooo much time!  Printers are the bane of my existence- 2nd only to users.

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    • Dennis72 wrote:

      Mike400 wrote:

      The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

      So much this!

      I also wouldn't mind if, when they do end one model and move to the next, KEEP THE SAME TONER AND DRUM as the previous model!! Stop changing them every time you update a model. I don't even want to think of all the money wasted on drums and toner cartridges that don't fit a new model and are immediately useless, unless you still have another that uses the same TN / DR models.

      Specifically looking at you "Brother". Ugh.......

      Oh, they'd never do that. That's intentional. For the same reason that all of a company's models, or at least broad swaths of them, don't use the same cartridges -- your wasted toner is money in their pocket. There's no reason that HP (for example) couldn't manufacture their entire laser line to use about 5 different toner cartridges (or sets of color cartridges). They just don't want to, because money.

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    • Printers and buying printers are a minor annoyance compared to dealing with their $#!++y drivers. And a big FU to Microsoft for still not fixing the inherent stability issues with Server 201X, Type 3 vs Type 4 drivers, RDS clients, Easy Print, blah, blah, blah. Ugh!

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    • CoreyFlies wrote:

      Dennis72 wrote:

      Mike400 wrote:

      The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

      So much this!

      I also wouldn't mind if, when they do end one model and move to the next, KEEP THE SAME TONER AND DRUM as the previous model!! Stop changing them every time you update a model. I don't even want to think of all the money wasted on drums and toner cartridges that don't fit a new model and are immediately useless, unless you still have another that uses the same TN / DR models.

      Specifically looking at you "Brother". Ugh.......

      Oh, they'd never do that. That's intentional. For the same reason that all of a company's models, or at least broad swaths of them, don't use the same cartridges -- your wasted toner is money in their pocket. There's no reason that HP (for example) couldn't manufacture their entire laser line to use about 5 different toner cartridges (or sets of color cartridges). They just don't want to, because money.

      That's a little naïve. At the most, you're going to have one or two carts per printer change that aren't used. And they're probably after-market, not OEM.

      And, it completely ignores the engineering, design, drafting, tool design, manufacturing setup, assembly line, documentation, and specialized forming, stamping, injection molding, and packing required and the warehousing, inventory control, and other costs associated with producing that cartridge. Think how much more money HP would make if they could save all that cost.

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    • I recently ran into something very frustrating with the HP PRO AIO line.  A company I do a lot of work for uses the LaserJet Pro MFP M426 in many of their offices, and I was so impressed that I bought one for my home office (it runs circles around my ten-year-old 3055).  When they bought out a small practice and joined it to the company network, that new office got the MFP M227, which is a little cheaper - and larger!  Imagine our surprise when nurses in the office complained that they cannot FAX and (while the FAX is being transmitted) print or copy on one of these; while the M426 can fully multitask.  How are we supposed to know WHAT we gain by moving up to the next level?

      A downloadable spreadsheet with models in rows and features in columns and attached comments to each cell would make it easy to see the entire line and gracefully move up one level or down one level and understand what you are giving up.  Believe me, there is nothing like a "gotta-have-it" feature to bump a buyer up to the next level.  If they can't see anything about it, they won't be tempted to upgrade.  In fact, if the spreadsheet includes vertical "gantt charts" with a different color segment for each level of feature, you could easily see which version you would need to get to get this level of the feature you most need and this level of the second most desired feature.

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    • Personally I think there is a business for someone to create a website that has this comparison based on scraping the data from the various printer manufacturers and building a database so that it can be queried.  This way it can be manufacturer agnostic and make money off advertising.  

      Do a good enough job and the principle could be applied to many other devices and services.  Really it would be a bit like the Consumer Choice websites out there without having to rely on actual tests. 

        

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    • I thought HP had a site and they do. "Help me choose a printer." However the information provided has major omissions, which are either oversights or an attempt to get users to purchase more expensive equipment.

      All HP MFP's will scan to PDF and I believe they all have front USB ports for ease of print. If you are going to offer a tool, it needs to be accurate.



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    • I have a problem with those "help me choose" sites. They suck. Here's an analogy.

      I go to a "help me choose my car" site. I know that I want a car similar to my current car - but there's no option to enter that.

      The first question is "What sort of driving do you do?"
      1. City
      2. County
      3. Off-road

      But the only way to get 4WD is to choose "off-road." And that eliminates all the cars - even the ones that have 4WD. It shows me high-end pickups with tow winches and other stuff I don't want.

      It's just not intuitive. "Help me choose" that starts with what I've already got would be a big help.

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    • Discontinued?!  WTF? 

      For the work horses of the office you do not need to discontinue a printer every 9 months. It's a mature industry. There are no longer huge leaps in the technology. You're sticking dust to paper. How about you ride a model out for a decade or so?

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    • Yep really annoying.  We use small Brother printers for all our shops (currently the Brother MFC-J4620DW) because they are not over worked and seem to do a good job.  But every time Brother choose to discontinue a model it is always difficult to find the correct replacement!  We only connect our printers via Ethernet but we have sometimes purchased the replacement printer only to find that the model doesn't support Ethernet, they don't always make it easy for us.

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    • I absolutely cannot stand the useless monstrosities that are known as XEROX....worst printers i have ever had the misfortune of using and their support is even more woeful. Ignorant set of w4nk3r5

      I want to recreate the scene from office space when they smash up the printer but i want to do it with every printer xerox ever made.

      Every time i need supplies for my printer it is a battle, JUST GIVE ME A NEW TONER STOP GETTING IN MY WAY!

      I hate them, i wish we didn't use them here, I'd replace them in a flash.

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    • I would like to see printer manufacturers stick with their models longer. If a printer is a good one then why discontinue it? It is almost like saying, "Hey, we screwed up again and you all need to get over it and come buy our new wrapper around the same parts. Oh, and by the way, we made sure to change just enough to make you buy all new stuff from us again AND we decided to make it much harder for you to run cheaper toner! Come one, come all!"

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    • That seems reasonable and easy enough to implement.

      As for me, I would ask that they just make a print driver (preferable a packaged universal) that doesn't eventually do something screwy.  To date, I have found 0.  If I could find 1, I would already know exactly what printer I was buying every time (until that discontinue happened).

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    • Oh I almost forgot to add my personal user opinion.  As a home user...

      I would ask that all printer manufacturers started to make printers that were economical to replace ink.  It seems that anymore (well it has been a few years since I have actually bought a home printer), it is more cost efficient to buy a new printer and use the ink that comes with it rather than buy ink and replace it.  Maybe its how they try to sell more printers, I don't know, but it has to be creating so much more trash.

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    • Printers??  Who needs printers?  Didn't we all start on the trial to the "paperless" office more than 20 years ago?  

      The only think i learned from that exercise is that with each new generation of printer, we can now process multiple reams of paper (or now cartons) in the time it took the old one to go thru one.

      And I cant tell you how many times I've seen accounting print a 500 page report.... only to to look at the total on the last page and chuck the rest in the recycle bin.  I made the mistake asking them once if they would prefer to only get the last page... and they gave me the death stare and said "hell no!... we need all the detail"

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    • I can't agree with this one enough.

      In that vein, I bought a used Dell color laser for home (3100cn, made by Xerox) 6 years ago for a deal.  Normally, I wouldn't buy a color laser, but the SO is a teacher, and this makes for excellent use when you're trying to engage a classroom of students.  And the toner, unlike every other color laser I know, is relatively inexpensive (maybe it has to do with the fact that people have a million toner cartridges left over when they upgrade, and I can get them OEM brand-new-in-box for like $50 for a set of all of them).  The printer is a tank, it isn't the fastest in the world, but output is good, and it doesn't complain, it just does its job.

      Printer finally dies last April after several years, won't feed paper, no real parts available (could have fixed it if it did). I immediately begin the search --and everything has insanely expensive color laser toner, and I can't find a new equivalent.  From Dell, HP, Canon, Xerox, anyone. Color toner cost is sky-high for all of them, no matter whether it's light, medium, heavy-duty.

      I go out, and I pay semi-ridiculous money when I find a brand-new-in-box 3100cn someone had in Georgia, never used, on eBay. A printer from 2006-07. Shipping was a third of the cost (it weighs like 100 pounds, quite literally).  I didn't care.  It came to my house in the Dell freight box sized for pallet shipping, still wrapped, all of the shipping tape on all the doors and spaces still. Found it was missing a black toner cartridge, (must have been removed, but never used in the printer).  Was still overjoyed. I would rather buy that ten-year-old model than a new one, even if I had to pay several hundred for it.

      Somebody find me reasonable color lasers that last for years, that charge fairly for OEM color toner (that doesn't abrasively scrape up the transfer belts, rollers, or hurt the drums like some of the aftermarket garbage does) without trying to bend everyone over.  You will have a customer for life, because what I hate is the equivalent of buying a reasonably priced car, and then finding out every 20,000 miles, I have to pay $5,000 for new factory-direct tires.


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    • I've only had one printer that took the same toners as it's predecessor. Sometimes a plastic tab is just extended 5mm at the back - enough to keep the door popping open (Hello Samsung!!). It's so you have to buy from scratch and skip the spares for the outgoing one. Stuff the environment, we're here to make a fortune out of a couple of tablespoons of black powder, or thimble full of ink in the case of HP inkjets.

      Talking of expensive ink producers, shall I start a rant about 'Pagewide' being a lie?

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    • Kinda related, if you need Zebra label printers, check out https://zebraxperts.com . They offer service, refurbs, and can get you situated in everything Zebra.  I had a good experience with them.

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    • Heresy sir, PURE HERESY!!!

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    • Tagging Priscilla ... maybe something to consider talking to your folks over there at HP about .... ???

      Agree that with the databases companies have, this should not be that difficult, just basic model info even ... look up make/model/serial number, then if that one is discontinued ... here are existing production models with same/similar specs that way they can be compared.

      Maybe even a notes section to the side, that says, 'extra features not available in original model', like an older Laserjet didn't have web features, so it's listed in the extra features section that it has web features, this way you can do a proper compare and contrast.

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    • Robert5205 wrote:

      CoreyFlies wrote:

      Dennis72 wrote:

      Mike400 wrote:

      The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

      So much this!

      I also wouldn't mind if, when they do end one model and move to the next, KEEP THE SAME TONER AND DRUM as the previous model!! Stop changing them every time you update a model. I don't even want to think of all the money wasted on drums and toner cartridges that don't fit a new model and are immediately useless, unless you still have another that uses the same TN / DR models.

      Specifically looking at you "Brother". Ugh.......

      Oh, they'd never do that. That's intentional. For the same reason that all of a company's models, or at least broad swaths of them, don't use the same cartridges -- your wasted toner is money in their pocket. There's no reason that HP (for example) couldn't manufacture their entire laser line to use about 5 different toner cartridges (or sets of color cartridges). They just don't want to, because money.

      That's a little naïve. At the most, you're going to have one or two carts per printer change that aren't used. And they're probably after-market, not OEM.

      And, it completely ignores the engineering, design, drafting, tool design, manufacturing setup, assembly line, documentation, and specialized forming, stamping, injection molding, and packing required and the warehousing, inventory control, and other costs associated with producing that cartridge. Think how much more money HP would make if they could save all that cost.

      This is where they make their money, on consumables. I have had extremely good luck with the Kyocera line as far as consistency of the products and my only gripe would be the toner changes with each new device. We pay for maintenance so toner cost is part of the agreement so I just sent the unused one back..

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    • Dennis72 wrote:

      Mike400 wrote:

      The only thing I hate more than printers is shopping for printers.

      So much this!

      I also wouldn't mind if, when they do end one model and move to the next, KEEP THE SAME TONER AND DRUM as the previous model!! Stop changing them every time you update a model. I don't even want to think of all the money wasted on drums and toner cartridges that don't fit a new model and are immediately useless, unless you still have another that uses the same TN / DR models.

      Specifically looking at you "Brother". Ugh.......

      Quoted and reposted because I can only spice it once.

      Spice (7) flagReport
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