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  • I've enver heard that term before.

    Pepper graySpice (8) flagReport
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  • https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/reflow-and-a-reball-how-to-tell-the-difference-519185/Opens a new window

    resoldering components

    Pepper graySpice (8) flagReport
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  • This is better:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C80O7_galUOpens a new window

    Pepper graySpice (12) flagReport
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  • Are they suggesting that this is what they'd do to repair it?

    I can't help but feeling that replacing the board would be cheaper & simpler.

    Pepper graySpice (10) flagReport
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  • Hey Thanx for the reply. 


    Yes they are suggesting this is needed to repair it. 

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  • Oh wow i have no idea what they are doing, but my guess is : this looks more complicated then i thought.  
    I guess i ll give it a try and see, i see this is done and its not being invented by them. 

    Thanx

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  • JoeWilliams wrote:

    Are they suggesting that this is what they'd do to repair it?

    I can't help but feeling that replacing the board would be cheaper & simpler.

    Agreed.  The per-hour charge to do something like this would cost way more than just replacing the part.  This is really odd.

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • In opposition to doing this (looks complicated and with many paths to mess this up). What is the cost for a new video chip? It almost sounds like a manufacturing defect if its heat related.

    My gut reaction is this suggest provided in the OP by the repair service is full of crap. Any reputable repair service would not suggest this, period. I would expect either a chip level replace or they would just say the mobo is defective and it needs to be replaced. If this unit is under warranty then have them fix it using approved methods. If its out of warranty, then you really need to consider if fixing it is worth it, or just replace it and move on.

    Pepper graySpice (3) flagReport
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  • Yeesh, wonder how many times your hand slips and you end up with a nice soldering burn. No thanks.

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  • At the moment I'm tempted to be very suspicious of anything HP support says. Friend had called to get help getting new HP printer to talk to her laptop over wireless and they claimed her system was the issue as it had stopped services and malware. They tried to sell her a bunch of additional support services at which point she hung up on the. $150 Nerds visit later no malware found, services stopped are ones that only run as needed but she can now print. 

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • Go buy a Dell.  That's a crap answer from HP Support.

    Pepper graySpice (13) flagReport
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  • <thread derail apologies in advance just thought we could use a monday laugh>

    Reballing?  is that what Neuticles is for after you get your dog neutered?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUH58eacerI&feature=youtu.beOpens a new window

    Pepper graySpice (10) flagReport
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  • I've heard that term before when looking up a fix for a YLOD for a PS3.  My understanding is it is basically re-doing the connectors from scratch on the system board and the key components (processors for example).  Exactly what Randy1699 posted. 

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • As in "reflow the solder so it solidifies in little balls that substitute for contact pins?"

    Sheesh.

    Pepper graySpice (3) flagReport
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  • Honestly if the laptop was designed correctly (and has appropriate firmware) then this should never have been an issue - somewhere either in their cooling setup or firmware it failed to properly moderate the heat generated (should've either upped fan speed or downclock the chip or both); another time this could be an issue is if the case/board has too much flex and eventually cracks the solder joints (I have an old ibook g4 that this happened with)      Reflowing the solder will fix either situation but doesn't resolve the initial reason for the failure

    Pepper graySpice (3) flagReport
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  • Here I thought we were replacing those rubber balls in the pre-optical mice... I understand where the term may have come from, but also seems like they could have picked a better one.

    Pepper graySpice (4) flagReport
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  • HP laptops in general seem to have problems with video chips and CPU's overheating and failing.  Like Mike400 says: buy a Dell.  Never had this happen with a Dell.

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  • John, are you actually using your HP laptop on hot surfaces or for extended periods on your lap?  It sounds like weak excuses to me.

    Pepper graySpice (2) flagReport
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  • A number of years ago I had to get certified as an HP service technician (a requirement for the job at the time).  I *never* saw anything like that in their support/service workflow.

    Pretty much when things got to that point it was "get a new one and replace it".  If it was part of the mobo (or whatever PCB) you just replaced the whole thing.  Easier and cheaper.

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  • I was doin some serious "re-balling" this past weekend!!!  Heyyyy  Ohhhhhhh!!!

    Pepper graySpice (6) flagReport
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  • Even if he does use the laptop on his lap... that shouldn't be a problem or they shouldn't call it a laptop!

    Pepper graySpice (2) flagReport
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  • So... It's not what might be required after using a hot laptop without some sort of lap desk?

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  • Randy1699 wrote:

    This is better:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C80O7_galUOpens a new window

    I.am.speechless!

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • AN HP LAPTOP OVERHEATING ?!? 

     Emote \Rolls eyes "i've never even heard of this before."  

    Emote \Examining fingernails while carrying on the conversation, "I'm sure this doesn't happen often"

    Seriously, If your luck with HP laptops rivals mine, it is best to buy something else.

    Pepper graySpice (2) flagReport
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  • John718hp wrote:

    A couple of weeks ago i sent in my Hp laptop which stop working (Wont turn on)
    and after 2 days of revising they call me and say that it needs reballing because the video chip is burnt or worn out and this happens because of me using it on my lap or hot surfaces. 

    But the question and doubt is.  is this worth doing ? how long can it last before it damages again.

    It is possible the repair will last the life of the other major components.

    I have never heard of HP offering that as a repair option, they tend to mandate component replacement as do most other manufacturers.

    Beyond cost consideration should be given to other possible defects found or caused during repair. One final note who does the repair, and what equipment and information they have access to is a huge driver of success.

    Louis Rossmann does a lot of videos on his logic board repairs, and he talks a lot about bad competitors and bad customers. He also hosts boards to discuss repairs and the industry.

    In this view he talks about some repairs a competitor attempted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYjRTKxKGVoOpens a new window

    https://www.rossmanngroup.com/boards/forum/business-talk-aaOpens a new window

    He can be a bit ruff and NSFW at times, so be aware...

    Pepper graySpice (3) flagReport
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  • When I was first starting out that shop I worked at would reball by removing the motherboard and shielding all but the GPU with tinfoil, then hitting it with a heat gun. This would resolve the issue short term, 6-12 months until the soldering would give out again. 

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • I was just going to say the same thing as above. If you do this yourself, you can get away with using it for a while again, but if you're like me you'll eventually get sick or reheating it and you'll end up buying a new one anyway. 

    Anybody remember the old HP Pavilion laptops that did this to everybody? I had a stack of 11 of those laptops at home at one point. Everybody bought them, and they all had this issue. I'd reheat them, and but they'd all be back again in a few months. I'd even heard of a few people doing the xbox "towel trick" to fix this issue.  

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  • Don't waste your time.... IMO

    Most reputable service centers wouldn't offer this as a solution. A full motherboard replacement would be the correct fix. I'm guessing whoever is doing your repair is not HP, as I have a hard time thinking they would offer this as the solution (when considering cost and warranty).

    I helped a friend once who had an out of warranty HP laptop that was having video related issues due to faulty GPU. Determined it was a problem similar to yours, and this was a common issue with certain HP laptops. I took apart the laptop and found that the GPU shared the same heatsink as the CPU, only there was a gap between contact of the GPU chip and heatsink. HP remedied this (or designed intentionally) by using a large thermal pad to conduct the heat as opposed to thermal compound. I replaced the thermal pad with a new one, reflowed the GPU with focused heat while shielding all other parts of the board. I used a temperature probe as well, and after reassembling the laptop, it worked again. This seemed to indicate cold solder point(s) under the ball chip were the culprit. In the end, I advised my friend that the correct fix was either re-balling, replacing the board, or purchasing a new laptop. 

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • Generally, once the soldered connections on the GPU have been compromised "reballing/reflowing" is a temporary fix (2 months or less), and it will happen again. I would push for them to replace the GPU or the entire board if integrated. This baffles me that they would even suggest this. Like most everyone else has stated, buy another brand. Good luck

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • Just saw Gary's post above mine. I think the laptop I worked on was a pavilion too!

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  • In a LOT of older machines (specifically the DV4/4000-DV6/6000 series, the problem was the solder, not anything related to the firmware or software. Lead-free solder is very inflexible and prone to cracking, and is pretty much the requirement now world wide. Early lead-free solder compositions had a melting point as much as 20 C higher than the tin/lead solder it replaced, and was very brittle. getting it to properly adhere to the pads was also a problem because of that inflexibility.

    unless you have the equipment and the skill for this, I wouldn't attempt it in the slightest.


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  • HP soft skill is way beyond any bottom of the ocean. Unable to accept so-called follow the book explanation.
    I am amaze that they still proud of it. A manual book that can speak, pivotally, and heavy accent from certain region.
    I called HP support few months back, at the end, I choose a different language due to RUDE service and unprofessionalism.
    Is this how those call center agents represent HP? Very good to irritate end-user, please do keep up the work.
    They must have spend lot's of time to memorize all the manual book. 
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  • https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=louis+rossman+reball+gpuOpens a new window

    Louis repairs macs for a living. He doesn't know everything but he makes a living out of it so musn't be too bad.

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • Re-balling is not for the feint hearted. I work in IT in a high-class Electronics Factory, and I used to work on the shop floor. I am good friends with the head of the Rework Department, and have spoken to both him, and the head of Surface Mount about re-balling chips like this before, on iPhones and PS3's. At the end of the day, it’s not worth it, unless you work with that particular chip, day in, day out. This is because to do a proper job, you have to remove the BGA Video Chip, remove any old solder, and renew on the PCB with solder paste, using a specially created stencil. Then the chip would be replaced, lining everything up perfectly, and the PCB would pass through a re-flow oven, warming up the paste, and creating solid links between the pads on the PCB and the pads on the BGA Chip. (BGA stands for Ball Grid Array). This has almost certainly stopped working for you, because they would have used Lead-Free solder on the PCB, which is required by law on Consumer Products (RHOS Compliance). If you do repair, use Lead Based Solder. This is because Lead-Free solder, overtime can crack and prevent the passing of electrical signals through it.

    As most of the other posts suggest, its normally easier and cheaper to just replace the board, or the device completely.

    Pepper graySpice (6) flagReport
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  • John718hp wrote:

    this happens because of me using it on my lap

    But... it's a Laptop.

    Pepper graySpice (2) flagReport
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  • In my experience, on game consoles, it is really a 50/50 proposition, no guarantee that it will work, and even less of a guarantee for how long.

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  • I'd leave it myself- I used to work with Playstation 3s and re-balling was a common fix for the GPU's

    The problem is that re-balling won't fix the root cause.

    Its like trying fix a broken wing mirror with sticky tape, the GPU might work for a few weeks or months but then the same problem will happen again, with the overheating perhaps being a likely candidate.

    Its not a permanent fix and if the part or board is defective then is should be replaced 

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  • The only possible reason I can see for doing this if if a replacement motherboard or chip is no longer available, otherwise, just swap it out for a new one, far less hassle, probably more stable and almost certainly cheaper, seems like a no-brainer.

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  • I'm calling shenanigans. I don't see a universe where an OEM would offer this repair over component replacement. You sure you aren't talking about some brick & mortar repair shop?

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  • It appears that the support tech may have been going off-script and trying to show off some obscure knowledge.

    It also appears that said support tech might be a moron.  "Don't use on hot surfaces."  Oh, so I shouldn't be placing the computer on the side burner on my stove to look up a recipe while I'm making stew?  My bad.

    Or on my lap?  Look, I know you manufacturers insist on calling these things "notebooks," but seriously.  Nobody calls them "notebooks."  Except you guys.  Give up the ghost.  Not a single user calls them "notebooks" or "notebook computers." 

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  • Do not do this. There is a low chance of it actually working long term.

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  • Reverber wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=louis+rossman+reball+gpuOpens a new window

    Louis repairs macs for a living. He doesn't know everything but he makes a living out of it so musn't be too bad.

    I think one key issue, as explained in this video, is trying to use reballing when it is the wrong solution or as a total solution when it is only one step in a larger process.  

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073UdsOpens a new window

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  • All I can hear now is the late, great Tom Petty singing "I'm re, re-balling"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lWJXDG2i0AOpens a new window

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • What was their estimate to do the repair and what warranty do they give? If it is uneconomical for them to do it then I would suggest another repair technique that often works and that is to just reflow the solder and hope that the joints remake. It avoids the cost and expertise needed for reballing. Many people do this by stripping out the plastic bits and putting it in an oven at about 230 deg C for about 5 mins (google it for various recommendations about this procedure). If I need to do any reflow I use a very hot air paint stripping gun and reflow the solder that way; holding the board in a vice and not moving it until it is cool. Surprising how often it works. My reason for suggesting this is that if it is too expensive to get them to do it then the laptop is useless and you might as well do something as opposed to do nothing.

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  • Yes, this can fix the issue.  Is it a permanent fix, probably not.  I don't know what HP laptop you have, but I never recommend their 'consumer' level laptops.  They are built as cheaply as possible, without some of the better frames, and components.  Also, modern laptop manufacturing frequently does not put any chips in sockets, to make some of these issues easier, as that requires more height, and you as a consumer always want 'lighter, thinner', not 'easy to repair', or 'cheap to repair'.

    The HP 'business calls' laptops however, are solid well built and frequently 'tanks' as far as laptops go. you just don't get as much for the money as you do with a consumer grade machine, but you do get a higher quality, better designed,longer lasting, laptop.

    Personally, I'd have them replace the motherboard, but this can be almost the price of a new machine, so, it's personal choice.   

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  • I've been listening to Louis Rossmann regulary a while back. He's repairing Apple computers and talks about reballing as well.

    Not sure what video's it was, but might be one of those:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcEt073UdsOpens a new window

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsoNvLJhQ7MOpens a new window

    To go short, reballing is possible, but only when the chip itself still is fully functional. Even then it's a process that takes skills and time.

    You probably shouldn't have used it on the stove while it was switched on... (used it on a hot surface? what the hell do they mean by that?!?).

    If you had it on your lap while it burned out, you probably would have burned your legs or even something else...

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  • An HP that won't power on.  Now that is a new one.

    /sarcasm

    CMBarton wrote:

    AN HP LAPTOP OVERHEATING ?!? 

     Emote \Rolls eyes "i've never even heard of this before."  

    Emote \Examining fingernails while carrying on the conversation, "I'm sure this doesn't happen often"

    Seriously, If your luck with HP laptops rivals mine, it is best to buy something else.

    ^^^ So true!!!

    As others have said, they aren't going to 'reball' anything. They will replace any failed components. They just want you to think they are going to have to do something special so you will pay more for the repair (assuming it isn't under warranty).

    Buy a business class Dell and you will be happy.


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  • Whew! I thought that meant something else entirely.........

    Pepper graySpice (1) flagReport
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  • Hello @John718hp, you certainly have enhanced my vocabulary, at least, for computer terminology.  Even after extensive reading, I can't answer your two questions but my intuition makes me lean more toward motherboard replacement than to reballing.   I found this definition of the term helpful:  

    • Reballing is the process in which the GPU is removed, and the tiny solder balls on the bottom of the graphics card are replaced with a better, lead-based solder. It's then replaced back on the motherboard and reflowed to form proper bonds with the motherboard.Dec 2, 2010.

    Could you please PM me with your case number or serial number so I can locate the case?  I am eager to review your case and discuss it with the case owner.  I will share your inquiries.  Since this is your first post, welcome to Spiceworks.

    @ITsjake, in my office, staff is reluctant to use the term laptop as we have encountered over the years customers getting bad burns when using a notebook on their laps without a protective pad.  Even though reports of this have declined, we still prefer to use "notebook".


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