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  • Somewhat limited application but definitely an interesting idea.. I think this would be a good pre-high school exposure to get kids comfortable with computers..

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  • Now schools will expect.. no, demand cheap replacement parts for 10 year old computers...  in addition to their regular demands.  People wonder why I ran from the educational IT world screaming.

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  • Depends on your environment.  Schools can save a PILE of cash running these.  Schools can get Chromebooks for about $200 a piece for a decent one now or convert old laptops for $25/yr, not too bad.  I had my district on Linux and saved even more, but for the Chromebook experience these would work well.

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  • It is a cool idea, but I also understand what RojoLoco is saying, and unfortunately, that's what most people will do or want.

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  • RojoLoco wrote:

    Now schools will expect.. no, demand cheap replacement parts for 10 year old computers...  in addition to their regular demands.  People wonder why I ran from the educational IT world screaming.

    This is a very valid point.  Never even thought about this, I have wanted to join in on the educational IT environment.  It seems exciting to work with the younger generations.  

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  • Champion of IT Chaos wrote:

    RojoLoco wrote:

    Now schools will expect.. no, demand cheap replacement parts for 10 year old computers...  in addition to their regular demands.  People wonder why I ran from the educational IT world screaming.

    This is a very valid point.  Never even thought about this, I have wanted to join in on the educational IT environment.  It seems exciting to work with the younger generations.  

    Working in schools is a blast, with the right attitude.  As long as you understand you will have dirt for a budget; your underappreciated at every turn; your idea of "best practices" is just to make it work; the concept of the 3 year replacement cycle is some fairy tale you heard of at one time; all of the cool new toys that everyone wants you will see in 5 years; some of the shiney new toys that people want, you find out do not work in a school but your expected to make them work anyway; and your pay will suck!

    I ran a district for 4 years, job was dissolved due to budgets, I would go back in a heartbeat!!!

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  • you can install linux for free. mint or ubuntu are good alternative for repurposing old hardware

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  • Exactly, so the school districts are paying for support of a OS. Like they can already do with any major OS. . .  Except that this OS is designed by an ultra-light OS. 

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  • Funny enough I installed Android x86 on a old HP TC4400 and its the best media player I've ever owned. I have it in my garage for when I'm working on my car or doing other "Honey Do" projects.

    I'll never get rid of that thing.

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  • We did something similar this summer. We have a lot of desktop computers that are four to eight years old. We had two labs in our high school that always seemed the issue was something in the OS or something getting screwed up. In 14, we installed a VMware Horizon View environment with thin clients. All of the equipment was bought with state grant money. We found that we wanted/needed to expand it to cover these two labs. I wasn't too keen on the costs of buying 60 thin clients in my "rough part of town." We ended up converting the PCs to thin clients with Windows Thin PC. They boot to a shell that has no desktop. The login screen for VMware comes up, the student logs in with their network credentials, and they are placed in the correct desktop pool for that lab and have a fully functioning Windows PC. If they decide to screw with settings or mess it up where the desktop quits working, they logout and VMware destroys that machine and creates a new one.

    The software that is spoke about in the link is gaining a lot of traction here in Ohio. Chromebooks and Chromeboxes seem to be the hardware of choice for most districts because it is easy to manage.

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  • As someone who works in an Public Education institution let me tell you, people already expect us to pay pennys to buy dollars. We had a surplus sale a couple years ago where we were surplussing Pentium 4 1.8ghz computers with 256mb of ram. Someone actually said to me, "This is what happens when you give a school money, they start throwing away perfectly good equipment."

    I think that the perception that schools can survive on 10 year old equipment needs to change. If we want to entertain ideas like STEM or 3D printing or even digital curriculum we need to start looking at technology in education as a key component of success, and thus an investment that needs to be made accordingly.

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  • It is a good way to keep using old equipment.  I often install Linux to keep old stuff going.  Either way, it opening avenues to get away from the "big 2" platforms you have to pay for.  Now if we can just get developers to produce truly viable business solutions that run in these alternatives...

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  • While in concept it's a good idea.....in reality, what happens when all of these kids go thru school using a chromebook then get hired by company XYZ as a clerk and get plopped down in front of a windows machine with Microsoft Office?

    Being able to use a chromebook or an iPad doesn't always translate into the regular business world where the majority still uses Windows and MS Office.

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  • Do schools get bandwidth for free?

    Sounds like cheap, cheap, cheap is the environment but they have no problem running it all in the cloud.  At least till they have a hardware failure.

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  • Snufykat wrote:

    Do schools get bandwidth for free?

    No, but most public schools get it at a significant discount through E-Rate funding.

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  • Don't know if this has already been said but why move to Windows? I get it that schools are strapped for cash and can't afford to upgrade but most businesses have Windows so why teach kids to use a software that they won't use anywhere else?

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  • There's so much to say about schools....

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  • Todd5484 wrote:

    While in concept it's a good idea.....in reality, what happens when all of these kids go thru school using a chromebook then get hired by company XYZ as a clerk and get plopped down in front of a windows machine with Microsoft Office?

    Being able to use a chromebook or an iPad doesn't always translate into the regular business world where the majority still uses Windows and MS Office.

    Because hired staff know how to use MS and Windows so well now?

    These kids that go through school with without Office probably turn out just fine. They apply their skills just the same.

    For the record, Office is web-based (O365) and available for mobile devices including the iPad, so users could still access Office technically. However, it's a moot point. Education is not about the tools as much as it is about the process. Learning how evaluate information (use a spreadsheet) or write a report (use a word processor) does not change much between the available options. In my experience most people don't go much beyond the basics to begin with. Rarely do users know what OS they're running, so tell me how using a Chromebook would be a hindrance?

    Furthermore, If I'm hired for a job that goes behind the typical use of a computer or it's software I'd venture a guess that either (A) it was learned prior to being offered said job or (B) there is training available. Also it would be naive to think a student would only ever seen one OS or one productivity suite through 13 years of education (not including college).
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  • Begs the bigger question of poor students in schools... all that technology is wonderful... can they read? Do they have the basic education to get through and graduate from high school?

    We toss technology about and spend money on that.  Students don't get school supplies, teacher's don't get books, etc.  Looking at one example: 650 computers x $25/year license = $16,000.00 per year. Or more as a one time cost for $59/computer.

    Public school education in America has more problems than old/slow computers.

    Regards,

    Paul "inner-city students don't have winter coats, enough support from their parents (some have single parent working multiple jobs with several children) or heat in their homes, but we sure gave them iPads" Luciano, MCSE

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  • Todd5484 wrote:

    While in concept it's a good idea.....in reality, what happens when all of these kids go thru school using a chromebook then get hired by company XYZ as a clerk and get plopped down in front of a windows machine with Microsoft Office?

    Being able to use a chromebook or an iPad doesn't always translate into the regular business world where the majority still uses Windows and MS Office.

    Most kids now a days are given a chromebook on the first day of school and they have to use that until they are done.  So not really sure what point you are trying to prove...

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  • Paul Luciano wrote:

    Paul "inner-city students don't have winter coats, enough support from their parents (some have single parent working multiple jobs with several children) or heat in their homes, but we sure gave them iPads" Luciano, MCSE

    Isn't that why we have fundraisers and charities?  Its impossible in this day of age to feed,cloth and bathe everyone who is considered "poor".  No kidding there are better things to get.  But this is offering a cheaper alternative then having a school spend an average of $300-$400 on 650 computers...  In the end it saves money, maybe I am just uneducated because I have never worked in a school.  This idea just seems very logical in my mind.  

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  • At my high school since we have higher test scores we get very little money while the other high school gets crappy scores and gets all sorts of funding form the state (CA school system for you) anyway we usually get computers from the Air Force base down the road form us they off loaded a bunch of HP core 2 duo towers on us and Gateway Pentium 4 towers they I graduated 4 years ago I stopped in to say hi to my computer teacher a few weeks ago they were still there along with his Mac Mini lab that is Core duo and Core solo Mac minis.

    Apparently its federal law that computers cannot be no more than 5 years old to be in a school environment after an embarrassing audit from federal government the school district has to buy new computers for the school.

    It proves that you can have the state of the art school yet still have crappy education there was another school in Redding I believe that had a multi million dollar school built with computers and smart boards in every room the teachers didnt know how to use it because they did not get trained properly so they just sit there.

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  • Matthew6920 wrote:

    Apparently its federal law that computers cannot be no more than 5 years old to be in a school environment after an embarrassing audit from federal government the school district has to buy new computers for the school. 

    ... can you find a reference of that for me.... about 70% of my fleet is over 6 years old. This would be bad.

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  • uh, well...i like the idea...but this also assumes that your hardware hasn't broken or otherwise gone on the fritz during that time as well. Also, inevitably, you will need to buy new equipment...what then? Will you continue using this or will you go back to standard practices?

    I haven't been around very long and while cloud computing is getting there, I have still seen situations where the best/easiest/only thing to do would be to upgrade the hardware.

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  • The Schnak wrote:

    Matthew6920 wrote:

    Apparently its federal law that computers cannot be no more than 5 years old to be in a school environment after an embarrassing audit from federal government the school district has to buy new computers for the school. 

    ... can you find a reference of that for me.... about 70% of my fleet is over 6 years old. This would be bad.

    Average in mine was 8+.  Ran Linux on them and they would smoke another district quad-cores!

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  • Its novel in theory but excessively limited to the applications available, sure it is most likely of Linux in origin, but still limited to functioning within the confines of the web browser.  Not a fan.

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  • RAM. wrote:

    Its novel in theory but excessively limited to the applications available, sure it is most likely of Linux in origin, but still limited to functioning within the confines of the web browser.  Not a fan.

    If you have ever looked at a Chromebook, the "confines of a browser" are not as limited as they used to be.  With as much going web based as it is, there is actually very, very little that you cannot do.

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  • The inner-city schools are a confusing environment.  Great funds for some things, no money for others.

    Regards,

    Paul "no balance in education" Luciano, MCSE

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  • RAM. wrote:

    Its novel in theory but excessively limited to the applications available, sure it is most likely of Linux in origin, but still limited to functioning within the confines of the web browser.  Not a fan.

    Yeah, I agree. I guess if it's a matter of budget and budget alone (in other words, flexibility can go eff it's own mother), it would work. Otherwise, eh...

    SemiRelated -  My HP laptop has a pre-boot interface where I can do "internet" based activities such as browse the web, check email, yadda yadda without booting into windows, which is a very similar concept. I've never used it...

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  • The concept is great. Coming from the Educational I.T. world, I can say that I would not recommend this in my area. Most standardized testing takes place on computers and even if the OS was supported by the testing companies, what happens when these computers start losing key components like Hard Drives start crashing all of a sudden? Now, I may consider this if we were to replace all of the Hard Drives beforehand (Given that they are relatively cheap). However, when you can get lower performance computers for a couple hundred dollars, why would this be considered? I don't know, maybe they will help in some places but I feel that it would be a headache to keep old machines running...

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  • Jim4232 wrote:

    RAM. wrote:

    Its novel in theory but excessively limited to the applications available, sure it is most likely of Linux in origin, but still limited to functioning within the confines of the web browser.  Not a fan.

    If you have ever looked at a Chromebook, the "confines of a browser" are not as limited as they used to be.  With as much going web based as it is, there is actually very, very little that you cannot do.

    Its a "for the time being" view, yes the technology will advance to a more adequate point for my needs, but I don't see it as a functional outlet for all woks of life.  Sure it could suffice for a programmer, or any other text heavy environment, but when you start to introduce GPU needs, I feel it leaves much to be desired, for now.

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  • Good luck finding some EDO RAM and VESA cards for these relics.

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  • I can see I disagree with some here.

    I disagree with the whole chromebook as a students whole experience. I see new employees who don't know what a file extension is or why the excel spreadsheet they are trying open in Microsoft Word won't open. They don't know what a browser is. They don't know which browser they use. They don't know how to change printers. They don't know how to move a file from one location to another, don't know how to browse network drives, don't know how to save a document to a flash drive etc etc etc.

    This isn't 1995, an "educated" user should know how to use some of the basic tools the business world uses. I see some schools trying to cut costs by going to these chromebooks and google docs because Microsofts licensing is so expensive. well, it's the cost of doing business.

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  • RAM. wrote:

    Its a "for the time being" view, yes the technology will advance to a more adequate point for my needs, but I don't see it as a functional outlet for all woks of life.  Sure it could suffice for a programmer, or any other text heavy environment, but when you start to introduce GPU needs, I feel it leaves much to be desired, for now.

    What GPU heavy applications are you referring too?  Heavy gaming, yes leave local, after a while this is not so important anymore; something like AutoCAD, they are already moving online; Photo manipulation, too many pay and free online ones to count; Desktop publishing, lost count of these as well; Video production, many online; etc.

    It's all out there, even the gaming if you look.  To me it is at the tipping point where the local machine means nothing anyway.  I can have the local machine get broken/lost/stolen/die and I don't care, most everything I have or need is online now, just need to remember my password to get there from the next machine!

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  • Todd5484 wrote:

    I can see I disagree with some here.

    I disagree with the whole chromebook as a students whole experience. I see new employees who don't know what a file extension is or why the excel spreadsheet they are trying open in Microsoft Word won't open. They don't know what a browser is. They don't know which browser they use. They don't know how to change printers. They don't know how to move a file from one location to another, don't know how to browse network drives, don't know how to save a document to a flash drive etc etc etc.

    This isn't 1995, an "educated" user should know how to use some of the basic tools the business world uses. I see some schools trying to cut costs by going to these chromebooks and google docs because Microsofts licensing is so expensive. well, it's the cost of doing business.

    I simply don't understand you point.  As IT professionals we are the ones who enlighten those around us of new things, showing people what they don't know about computers. Yes technology is everywhere but you cant expect every single person to know it....?

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  • I think many of you are missing the point of what can be done here.  It's just an additional step to what most of us are already doing.  We buy crazy powerful workstations for our 3D renderers, move them to our CAD team after 1.5 years, and to the front office staff 1.5 years later.  This idea just adds an additional use case for when the cease to be useable with Windows.  In a school system, I could easily see a use case where a computer is purchased with Windows for use in high school for programing/CAD/graphics, downgraded to intermediate for basic spreadsheet and document tasks, downgraded again to 5th grade for basic tasks, and again to ChromeOS for use with the youngest kids computer intro and web based content.  I also think they will see more use as thin clients and to access web based content.  I also think they will be mostly treated as throwaway devices if anything happens other than RAM, hard drives, or fans.

    I have a Chromebook and its great for surfing the web, sending email, and remoting into my Windows machine when I need to.

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  • Sergio382 wrote:

    you can install linux for free. mint or ubuntu are good alternative for repurposing old hardware

    Mint and Ubuntu can be a bit heavy depending on how old the hardware is.  I've always like DamnSmallLinux for old hardware.
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  • brianp wrote:

    I think many of you are missing the point of what can be done here.  It's just an additional step to what most of us are already doing.  We buy crazy powerful workstations for our 3D renderers, move them to our CAD team after 1.5 years, and to the front office staff 1.5 years later.  This idea just adds an additional use case for when the cease to be useable with Windows.  In a school system, I could easily see a use case where a computer is purchased with Windows for use in high school for programing/CAD/graphics, downgraded to intermediate for basic spreadsheet and document tasks, downgraded again to 5th grade for basic tasks, and again to ChromeOS for use with the youngest kids computer intro and web based content.  I also think they will see more use as thin clients and to access web based content.  I also think they will be mostly treated as throwaway devices if anything happens other than RAM, hard drives, or fans.

    I have a Chromebook and its great for surfing the web, sending email, and remoting into my Windows machine when I need to.

    +1 Thank you for getting us back on the train tracks :) 

    This is a perfect example of why I posted this. 

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  • "Paul "inner-city students don't have winter coats, enough support from their parents (some have single parent working multiple jobs with several children) or heat in their homes, but we sure gave them iPads" Luciano, MCSE"

    This is a very good point. I would never advocate iPads to be honest, they are terrible, fragile devices that aren't designed for education and require hacked and cobbled together solutions to even make them work for students all at twice the cost of a Chromebook, but that's another story all together.

    The problem with your statement is that these are two different issues. Technology doesn't really help students fix where they are, but it can help fix where they end up. Giving poor schools the same access to technology as the rich school is the only way you can give those students a fair shot at competing with the students of the well funded schools. If you take the perspective of not giving equipment to poor schools because they are too poor, you have simply guaranteed that the next generation of students will be just as bad off as this one.

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  • Todd5484 wrote:

    I can see I disagree with some here.

    I disagree with the whole chromebook as a students whole experience. I see new employees who don't know what a file extension is or why the excel spreadsheet they are trying open in Microsoft Word won't open. They don't know what a browser is. They don't know which browser they use. They don't know how to change printers. They don't know how to move a file from one location to another, don't know how to browse network drives, don't know how to save a document to a flash drive etc etc etc.

    This isn't 1995, an "educated" user should know how to use some of the basic tools the business world uses. I see some schools trying to cut costs by going to these chromebooks and google docs because Microsofts licensing is so expensive. well, it's the cost of doing business.

    I definitely see where we will end up agreeing to disagree.

    - Why should a user know what a file extension is, nearly all of them have been hidden from view by default for 15+ years if not longer (at least since XP and early versions of iOS)?
    - If a user double clicks on the spreadsheet, and it tries to open in Word, then somebody broke the file association behind the scenes - not a user problem but an IT problem (though it would be nice if the user would know how to fix the problem).
    - A user should not necessarily have to change their default printer, the print dialog box is going to prompt them to select a different printer if necessary - and as long as IT has them named in some way that they know which printer is which, it becomes easy for them to do.
    - The method of file navigation is slightly different depending on OS, so the fact that a user cannot navigate a Windows file structure isn't a big deal, if they understand the underlying concept of how a file system works.  On a Chromebook, I still have the ability to save files to different locations (local flash drives, cloud-based folders, etc.) so at least the concept of browsing file locations isn't anything new. Which leads me to the point that has already been made.

    The role of the lower levels of education (grade school and to an extent High School) is to teach the process, not the tool.  Does it really matter if the mechanic doesn't know how to read the diagnostic code scanner if they don't first understand how the car engine works?  Does it really matter if a student is using Excel, Sheets, or Calc if they don't understand the concept of what a spreadsheet should/can be used for?

    With Office moving to the web, it isn't really that much different from Google Docs, especially in the basic functions that account for probably 80% of what Office is really being used for (I use both every day).  The decision for many schools to "Go Google" isn't really based on cost savings as the basic Office 365 subscription (comparable in function to Google Docs) is 100% free for schools, just like Google Apps for Education.  When the school I volunteer for was making the decision a couple years ago, the two main reasons they decided to go with Google over Microsoft were ease of administration and the superior collaboration tools Google provided.

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  • In another couple of years, when they are considering upgrades to the computer lab at the school, solutions like this one may get some serious consideration.

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  • To play devil's advocate to my own comment, where chromebooks really fail in inner-city or poor rural areas is access to the internet.  I had stacks of laptops that I had wiped and installed Ubuntu on.  My wife was a 5th grade teacher and I asked her to give them to the students who really needed them.  While the students were all very appreciative, they went mostly unused because none of them had internet at home; and there are not exactly a ton of coffee shops with free Wi-Fi in the neighborhood.  

    Until kids have better access to the internet, they will continue to lag behind.  I would like to see how well most of us would do in our jobs without Google or Spiceworks.  Sure you may know everything about your job now, but what about that new thing that's out next week/month/year.  

    The key is to get the technology into their hands in a way that they are inspired to use it.  I will take an employee with a lifetime of working on different technology over someone trained to do exactly what is on the job description.  The job will change.  So what if they have never been on a Windows system and don't know how to browse the network drive if they can manage the company's social media presence or design really cool stuff that clients love?  Do they even need a computer to do their job or can it all be done on their phone?  +1 to KurtBimler

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  • It still has the enter key. I have an old dell laptop that I broke the enter key about 10 years ago.

    I'll occasionally boot it up as I take a shower, eat breakfast, brush my teeth, etc.

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  • I did some contract rollouts for a few school districts. 

    They didn't skimp on equipment and most of them sat in kindergarten and elementary schools with layers of dust, replaced with probably the same.

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  • Brian, you are 100% correct.  Lack of Internet access is a HUGE stumbling block, regardless of the system being used.  Unfortunately, it is one issue that is not easy (or inexpensive) to fix.

    I will be the first one in the office to admit an important part of my job is understanding a problem, and knowing how to put together the correct query in Google to find the answer.

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  • Jim4232 wrote:

    Working in schools is a blast, with the right attitude.  As long as you understand you will have dirt for a budget; your underappreciated at every turn; your idea of "best practices" is just to make it work; the concept of the 3 year replacement cycle is some fairy tale you heard of at one time; all of the cool new toys that everyone wants you will see in 5 years; some of the shiney new toys that people want, you find out do not work in a school but your expected to make them work anyway; and your pay will suck!

    I ran a district for 4 years, job was dissolved due to budgets, I would go back in a heartbeat!!!

    So pretty much like most of the private market place?
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  • one mans junk is another mans junk - I mean treasure!

    no its junk. eventually things need replacing, or upgrading, that's the way of the world. how long between cycles is a matter of choice and circumstances, I guess

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  • Some may call this junk, me I call them treasures.

    If the old machines are tanking anyway is it really faster to run software in a browser than it is to run it locally?

    If a machine can't load MS Office in a timely fashion isn't it also going to struggle rendering a complex web apps like google docs?

    Isn't a lot of the performance saving with alternate O/Ss really just down to not being able to install your monstrous machine crippling corporate A/V on them?  Or are they really that light now?

    (I haven't tried this software - just naturally sceptical!).

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  • Why pay a license, when you could have a version of Android for PC Free?

    http://www.android-x86.org/

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